Loves Them All (in some way)

[rainshaded]

This started out as a comment on biichan's post, but got too long to inflict on someone else's journal.




The anon meme is all that is worst about fandom. Evil, evil place. Ever since just the first few pages of post one seriously depressed me with the level of hate and stupid in fandom, I try to ignore it.

I love fandom, but increasingly my definition of fandom is my flist; lovely, sane people.

I will be always be grateful to my best friend for introducing me to the new series and RTD to making it, but only for this leading to discovering how much more awesome the Classic series is. At the moment, my level of interest is low enough that I don't care who Eleven is.

I love the Classic fandom and will take it being quiet over being like New Who fandom any year. The idea that hate is being directed at Classic characters makes me very sad, because it threatens one of my favourite things about Old School fandom, that I can like, love and ship characters without being categorised. I love Liz and Romana, but I don't hate Jo and Ace on principle, I quite like what very little I've seen of them.

Also, despite having seen little of Jo, I am confident that the Doctor never told her that Liz would know what to do.

Although I'm glad that Internet fandom didn't exist while the Classic series was on the telly because JNT seems to have had something about Sarah Jane very similar to RTD on Rose.
I read a Doctor Who: The Companions book by JNT from the 1980s and while it was actually a) about the actors and creation and b) pre-Sarah companions averaged about a couple of lines (Jo's was 'Katy now lives in Australia'), he found time to go on about how SUPER-SPECIAL and SPARKLY and UNIQUE Sarah Jane was and how much he loved her and how she was so STRONG and LOYAL and CLEVER and STOOD UP TO THE DOCTOR (true enough, but) and NO COMPANION HAD EVER BEEN LIKE THAT BEFORE, EVER so much that I found myself almost disliking her, before I remembered that I actually liked Sarah. I fear I may have lost the battle of liking Rose after S4 and she was my first companion, she was a big part of why I got into DW.

Although a certain level of regard is of course necessary in a Doctor/companion relationship, this can be expressed in different ways and doesn’t need to be romantic. At all. Companions don’t need to be validated by the Doctor’s romantic love in order to be liked, otherwise Susan would be the most reviled companion ever. Nor do they need a great destiny to replace being in a romantic relationship with the Doctor; I don't need Donna to be "the most important woman in creation" and actually would have preferred it if she wasn’t, seeing what that led to which basically seemed to contradict the whole ‘Donna is equal to the Doctor’ thing.

I'm a multi-shipper (and all of them place me as an elitist 'Other', yay!), but I absolutely loathe the idea that romantic love > platonic love. It sounds like something RTD would say! Oh wait, he did!

I love the subtext of Classic Who, that it is open to interpretation (yes, it is) and that's part of the reason I hate watching the Confidentials and having 'ultimate answers' pronounced upon me. We watched the end of PotW and the Confidential as a rerun on BBC Three once while my parents were waiting for the program that came afterwards and I was disagreeing with everything that was being said (until 'SHUT UP, Emma, we don't care!). Likewise, River Song. It's not made clear in the episode and really, 'the Doctor's greatest love' is a huge pronouncement to make.

But not quite as lengthy. Ramble ends now so I can go and eat chocolate and watch Classic Who.

Comments

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

JNT seems to have had something about Sarah Jane very similar to RTD on Rose.

Really?! Now I'M glad I've never much cared about authorial intent in Who because before I ever started watching old skool (or even knew much about Who) I'd heard of SJ. Supposedly she was "the bestest companion who ever lived." When I finally got around to watching her serials I was struck by how much she WASN'T very different to any previous companions, and how few serials she was actually in.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love Sarah Jane completely (just as I love almost all companions) but I just don't see her as being particularly revolutionary. Then again, I don't see Rose that way either. Perhaps I'm just watching a different show. Luckily for me, I reaaaaaaaally love the show I'm watching. ;-)

Oh, and the anonmeme is both the best and worst of fandom. The crack and picspams are divine. I avoid anything that looks even remotely wanky like the plague. It's helping me learn how to stop worrying and love the anonmeme.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

See, now, I have a problem with any companion who is put forth as being "revolutionary" or "no companion had been like that before". Unless they're talking about Babs/Ian/Susan, in which case, fair enough since there were no companions before them.

romantic love > platonic love
This drives me absolutely crazy. Probably at least in part because I've run into people (mostly females) in real life who seem to believe the same thing and will happily dump their friends for Love Interest Of The Week. Which never seems to end well for them. But on a less bitter-personal-life level, in fandom it drives me insane because a certain subset of shippers use it to invalidate every other companion (or general character, sometimes) except their Chosen One. And being naturally inclined towards multishipping and preferring subtext to in-your-face text and falling in love with completely obscure characters in all fandoms...this puts me rather at odds with that subset.

(The fact that I don't particularly like their Chosen One also puts me at odds with them, but whatever.)

I always felt like a companion ought to be validated by their own unique awesomeness, in which case all the companions (even the ones I don't like!) are equally but uniquely important and special in the Whoniverse. The idea that their importance/specialness hinges on how much the Doctor wants to score with them is...creepy and squicky and exclusionary and totally against the feeling of Old Skool Who.

[shobogan.livejournal.com]

I'll actually disagree and say there are worthwhile things on the anon meme - love threads, costume pic spams, wacky discussions, thoughtful debates - if you ignore the wank. For it can be rather infuriating if you let it, and it is very easy to let it, and I have done my fair share of internet shouting, I'll admit.

Everything else I agree with a hundred percent. I love that part of my flist are collectively doing a "bitch, please". :3

...And, yeah, that crap makes me just as annoyed if it's about someone I'm quite fond of. Barbara wants to have a chat with you, JNT.

Also, despite having seen little of Jo, I am confident that the Doctor never told her that Liz would know what to do.

Three actually wanted to refuse her, because he wanted his brilliant scientist back, but she was so charming he couldn't. ;) And he realised Jo can make her own, different contributions. Like talking his ass out of trouble and breaking him out of jail cells!

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I hate it when the OMG X IS THE BESTEST COMPANION EVAH AND EVERYBODY ELSE SUXORS! crowd rears its ugly head, and avoid the anon meme like the plague, as these things tend to set my teeth on edge. I don't have a least favourite companion (unless Adam Mitchell counts) because I can't be bothered to go find something wrong about them, being too busy finding exactly what they did as part of a specific Team TARDIS that made them stood out, for example. Or what their biggest strengths as part of the team were. Because of this, I just cannot comprehend people who try to bring a character down just to validate their favourite.
And this goes for shipping as well. As you know, Doctor/Jamie is my OTP, and I have quite a few others I'm rather fond of (for instance, I'm now fascinated with the possibilities of Harry/Victoria) but I have no trouble with any other pairing, and I don't think the world revolves around my ship of choice. And, as you said, what's the big deal about platonic love? It's still love, no matter what its nature might be.
*sighs* It's the shippers rather than the ships that make me cringe, usually.

[paranoidangel]

Also, despite having seen little of Jo, I am confident that the Doctor never told her that Liz would know what to do.

He didn't. He learnt to appreciate her for herself, as he did all of his Companions.

I have the same problem with Rose. I liked her until I saw the mess around her in fandom and it's only that that made me go off her. I bet if I went back and rewatched series 1 I'd remember why I liked her again.

Likewise, River Song. It's not made clear in the episode and really, 'the Doctor's greatest love' is a huge pronouncement to make

I don't get why most of fandom seem to have decided that she was the Doctor's wife because there's nothing at all in the episodes to suggest anything of the sort. She might have been for all we know, but only Steven Moffatt knows for sure, and he hasn't said. As far as I'm concerned, she's just another Companion.

[elliptic-eye.livejournal.com]

He didn't. He learnt to appreciate her for herself, as he did all of his Companions.

Pretty quickly, too.

[elliptic-eye.livejournal.com]

I've been 90% unplugged from fandom past the reaches of my shiny f-list for… months now, I think. But the rumblings of wank have begun to reach my shores. Is it time for one of those Who love-memes, or something?

(Also, I think I grok you on Sarah. I mean, I've thoroughly enjoyed her in every story of hers I've seen, but I never got the Special Aura. However, I also realize that some Sarah fen probably feel toward My Speshul Leela as I do toward Sarah. Somehow, we've never come to blows over it.)

[yourfavoritesky.livejournal.com]

WORD on the anonmeme. It's occasionally friendly and full of picspammy prettiness, but the hatred sucks all the fun out of it, imho.

I love Rose and Martha, Donna, Susan, Babs, Ian, Jamie, Jo, Liz, Romana, SJ, Harry, Nyssa, Ace and everyone in between in the classic series, the new one, the Big Finish Audios and the bajillion books. I ship Doctor/Rose like woah, and also pretty much everyone else ever (Four/Romana/Duggan OT3 FTW!). This fandom needs MOAR LOVE, and a whole lot less hate ;)

[littledarkvoice.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I didn't see the anonmeme. Prioritizing one companion over another to the point of ignoring the cool parts of certain companions never struck me as fun. I like the Whofolk I have friended, though. Y'all are sane. Also this--

I'm a multi-shipper (and all of them place me as an elitist 'Other', yay!), but I absolutely loathe the idea that romantic love > platonic love.

--is exactly how I feel about every fandom, not just Who, and it kills me that it's so hard to find like-minded people. Thank you for being one of them!

[amaresu]

I'm with you on not caring very much about who Eleven is. Came in through New Who, but really I'm much more fond of Old and Middle Who. Maybe that'll change in S5, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I just don't get Companion hate. Sure there are some I like less and there are some I adore above the rest, but I don't hate any of them. I don't understand why people would. Of course I try and find the things to like about them, even the ones everyone always says are useless.

I try to ignore authorial intent. It doesn't do much good and it really tends to cause problems. I think a lot of the current issues in fandom could have been avoided if the confidentials hadn't been around. Too many people point at them and say that because the creators said so it must be so. Subtext and different interpretations are just a lot more fun.

Platonic love is (I think) more interesting then romantic love. I don't really care for Doctor/Companion ships anyways though. I think I might be an asexualist with shippy tendencies. Companion/Companion ships are a lot more fun. Although perhaps I've rejected the idea of most Doctor/Companion ships because of the ships wars. If I remove myself from the battlegrounds I can just go about my day without thinking about it.

Side note: For every person in fandom who goes on about Sarah Jane I've always had my mom as counter point. My mom hates Sarah Jane with a passion. I can't watch Sarah Jane episodes without my mom making commentary onlong the lines of "I hate her," "she's just a whiny snot," and "I just wanna slap her." It always makes me laugh.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Personally, I tend to believe the Doctor does in a sense love them all, but that's not to say he felt the same about each one. There's nothing wrong or debasing in that - I love my family, but I don't feel exactly the same way about my father as my brother. Can love two people 'equally' as it were, but in different ways and for different reasons. I dare say love from family (adopted, blood or otherwise) is no damn less than romantic love, but romantic love gets a lot more attention as a relatively newer... Freedom, I guess, since marriages were a lot more arranged back in the day.

I suspect a lot of the 'one true love' soulmate stuff a lot of media tries to sell us is part of the reason for the need in some to make the Doctor's love for char A be greater than B.